Home Theater Forum
Home Theater Forum
chat with other Aperion owners and our gurus

Home Forums Aperion Forums Guru’s Joint Should you need subs to listen to music with a pair of 6Ts?

This topic contains 7 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by avatar Steven 4 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2566
    avatar
    William
    Member

    For the better part of the last decade my system at home has been a BOSE Lifestyles system. I finally realized my listening to music at home had virtually ceased as we really only turned it on to watch an occasional movie. The BOSE was fine at movie sound, but lacking in stereo music listening. Please understand stereo music listening is what is most important to me.

    I have been a musician for more than 35 years, playing primarily acoustic music (mostly in small local venues). Listening to music has been a daily part of my life for even longer, and although I primarily listen to acoustic music, once in a while I will still crank up the "classic rock". Most of my listening to music the last couple of years has been sitting at my Macbook running Logic Studio and using Mackie MR5 nearfield monitors playing .AIFF files. I have been extremely happy with that.

    To complicate matters, recently as a part of an IEM (In Ear Monitor) solution for the stage I began working with I was introduced to Ultimate Ears TripleFi.10 ear buds. When I brought them home from a rehearsal and plugged them into my iPod I began to rediscover parts of recordings I hadn't heard in years, or had never heard even though I had been listening to the recordings with inexpensive Sony ear buds.

    That got me to thinking (now I'm in trouble), upgrade the home system so you will listen to music in the living room again. The Mackie's sound perfect, you just need to get something bigger to fill the large room.

    My research led me to purchase a new Marantz 90w per channel receiver and a pair of new 6T Aperions in cherry. When I phoned to order them and found out they did not have bi-amp capabilities I hesitated ordering them, but the gentleman I spoke to explained that with Aperion's superior crossover there was no need to bi-amp.

    I planned to listen to the Aperions, validate them as my new stereo speakers and then add Aperions as the rest of the 7.1 system capabilities for a really great home system.

    Listening to Brandi Carlisle "Cannon Ball", or Blake and Rice II I feel as the musicians are in the room with me, James Taylor's guitar on "Sweet Baby James" is roughly acoustic perfection…

    …but add anything with much bass in it and I wasn't as pleased. To my ears the 6Ts are extreme in their accuracy in the mid and high ranges but have a bit of weakness in the bass, there is some improvement with really increasing the volume but I do not want to routinely turn the volume that high, not to mention my wife won't stand for it.

    Listening to the recording of Academy of St. Martin's In The Field, Sir Neville Mariner – "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" the strings are brilliant and the viola section (which all but disappeared on the BOSE system) adds depth to the piece through the 6Ts however the cellos are fading and the bass just doesn't have as much depth as I was expecting.

    Listening to "With or Without You" from U2's the Joshua tree the pulse of the bass guitar is audible, but again doesn't make me feel the music. Turning the volume up helps, but I don't want to listen that loud.

    Trying to listen to Led Zeppelin's "When The Levee Breaks" was a bit frustrating unless I cranked it way up. If you can't hear the bass drum clearly, then what is the point?

    I am in still in the first week of the Aperion Audio 30 day trial, and I have thoughts about sending them back already. After about 8 hours of listening they have seemingly "loosened up" maybe slightly – but still are without the deep bass punch I – need. Is listening to them for 55 – 100 hours to break them in really going to improve the bass that much?

    I have high praise for the Aperion 6T pair from a clarity and accuracy standpoint in the mid and high ranges but I feel like I  - need – a subwoofer now. Are my expectations unrealistic?

    Has the world of listening to stereo music changed so drastically from the 70s when those 3 way Cerwin Vega's with a 12" woofer had you covered? If that was the case then two studio monitors shouldn't sound so good…

    I am somewhat confident adding a subwoofer will make for a great listening experience at the volume I want to listen but with the cost of this pair of speakers already, I am not sure spending another $999 for a subwoofer is the answer just to get to a basic state of "I have a good sounding stereo", is it?

    Does taking the budget up to a total of $2389.00 for a pair of stereo speakers (2 x 6T and a subwoofer) mean I should consider other options? Certainly I am thinking a pair of JBL 3 way studio monitors LSR6332 would do the job well, and within that budget. Size certainly is an important consideration as well. I don't have the room for La Scalas. Cornwalls possibly could be an option. 

    Update: After another 10 hours of listening today and tonight, there is no doubt the 6Ts are extreme in their accuracy in the mid and high ranges. Very clear and reproduce voices extremely well, there does seem to be a slight improvement in the bass response and increasing the volume helps with the bass presence, but to begin to get realistic sounding upright or electric bass reproduction it seems to me they have to be at a high enough amplitude level that I can't carry on a normal conversation with the person sitting next to me. I don't have that problem in the studio.

    I should probably mention too that I live in a geography in which the highest end audio store is Best Buy, which was a primary factor in my auditioning Aperion. There is no where to go and listen… 

    I look forward to y'alls input.

    #2810
    avatar
    Jason Hicks
    Member

    Hello there,

    I personally think the 6Ts bass response is pretty strong, as they are fairly flat down to 45 Hz or so, but if you want more bass then it sounds like adding a sub would be the way to go.  The bass extension should continue to open up as they break in, which is most noticeable up to about the 40 hour mark with some more subtle changes up to the 100 hour mark, but I don't think that it will be a huge difference from what you are hearing now. 

    I would say that you don't necessarily have to go up to the 12D though, even the 8D will give you much more output at 30 Hz than the 6Ts as a consequence of the larger woofer size and because it isn't working to produce any frequencies above 80 Hz or wherever you cross the sub over.  If your room is 15X20 or smaller then an 8D might be all you need in the bass department.  If it is a larger room, then the 10D works in a space up to around 20X20 or so.  The real reason to go for the 12D would be if you have a larger space than that, or you want an authoritative bass response all the way down to 20 Hz.  

    I hope that helps but please let me know if you have any other questions, thanks! 

    #2891
    avatar
    Steven
    Member

    whh3,

    I always start by saying, "I'm no expert" and this is no exception. At the risk of sounding like a total idiot…

    How do you have the speakers set up in the receiver? Are the 6T set to "Large" with "No" subwoofer?

    I have the 6T and a lot of times it depends on the recording as to whether I play them alone in stereo or add the sub. However, when I do play them by themselves, I always go into my receiver and set them to "Large" with "No" to Subwoofer. When I listen to music with the sub, I set the 6T to "Small" and "Yes" to Subwoofer. Is it possible your receiver is set up to "think" there is a sub attached so not all the low range is being sent to the 6T?

    Just a thought. I hope that helps.

    Blue

    #2876
    avatar
    Nick
    Member

    Hi whh3.  I too have the 6Ts and have been quite satisfied with the amount of bass they put out.  I suspect there may be room acoustic problems in your situation for you to have to crank the volume so loud to hear any of the bass.  For context, my 6Ts are in a large room that is open to the kitchen in the rear and a dining room and entry way on the side.  It's more than 7,300 cubic feet, and the 6Ts output plenty of bass for me when listening to music.  Having said that, I have two SVS PC13-Ultra subwoofers that I use to fill such a large space with the low frequencies contained in most modern movies.  Since I have the subs, I typically set my receiver to output bass to both the 6Ts and the subs when listening to music.  But I can tell you there is not as huge a difference as one might think there would be when I switch back and forth between outputting bass only through the 6Ts and outputting bass to the 6Ts and the subs.  The frequency in most music simply does not go that low.

    Based on my experience with the 6Ts in my room, I suggest experimenting with placement of your 6Ts before going the subwoofer route.  Good luck.

    -Nick

    #2745
    avatar
    William
    Member

    Blueste – Thanks for the suggestion, it is always a good idea to double check the basics, but the Marantz has been set to "Large" all along.

    Nbuchen – Unfortunately  with regards to speaker placement it is one of those "it is what it is" kind of situations and there really weren't options with regards to speaker placement. The room is about 15 x 22 and has 20' vaulted ceilings with a balcony on the second floor as well as a hallway and double door size entrance to the kitchen along the inside wall.

    Jason – As you can see from the picture below, I have added a 12D.

    I said in my initial post "there is no doubt the 6Ts are extreme in their accuracy in the mid and high ranges. Very clear and reproduce voices extremely well". The speakers are now "broken in", and with the addition of the subwoofer I now feel I have an incredible system for music listening. It just so happens… I was recently invited to a friend's "man-cave" in the basement of his home where he had just had one of those audio design firms install a new sound system and Plasma TV. I got to hear the Klipsch RF-62s which were speakers I was considering before I decided because of Aperion's free in-home trial to take a listen to the 6Ts. The Klipschs sounded ok, but do not come anywhere near the clarity or presence of the Aperions. (although a room dedicated to the man of the house is pretty awesome!)

    With the perfect room for listening (how many folks have that?) the 6T placement perhaps could be positioned for more optimal bass response I don't think it would satisfy my ears. I certainly had to have the sub in my situation.

    I appreciate everyone's input.

    Now to decide whether to add a center channel and two rear speakers, or just get a McIntosh integrated stereo amp… 

    #2871
    avatar
    Zechariah
    Member

    whh3 it looks like the right 6T is pointed right at a wall? or is it just the picture?

     

    If it is you might want to slightly turn in your speakers to point to the main listening position. This would improve your sound stage and also have the first angle of reflection be relatively the same for each speaker.

     If not then just ignore me.

     

    This is just my 2 cents….I'm still a big newbie

    #2656
    avatar
    Humberto
    Member

    Good looking out Z.  Maybe switch places with the sub and 6T on the right? –>  I  I x

    If you decide on getting a center you might need a new TV stand .

    Cute dog [&][}]

    #2618
    avatar
    Nguyen
    Member

    [quote user="Herbie"]

    Good looking out Z.  Maybe switch places with the sub and 6T on the right? –>  I  I x

    If you decide on getting a center you might need a new TV stand .

    Cute dog [&][}]

    [/quote]

     

    The dog placement might be a bit off.  :P  But the speakers look great and match the floor and the guitars nicely. 

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.