A newbie here with a  amplifier/ power question. I really like the aperion reviews and looks and am hoping to take my first step to a great home theater system in the next couple of weeks. Ive done much research and really want the aperion 5b teater system( 2 5b's a 5c with the 4c surrounds and a bravius d10 sub. I have a medium size living room 16x20 with standard 8 ft ceiling. Currently i have a Onkyo htr8000 that is good but i want more, my delima is the sensitvity issues of the aperions.will my Onkyo be able to push them enough where i can really enjoy the fullness of the speakers as i am on a tight budget and if not i will have to sufer for months till i could get a better reciever. i have sacrificied monthsssss to save for the speakers and just want to make sure i dont get them and am only to be dissapointed not by the speakers but the fact that possibly my amp cant push them good and its blamed on the speakers. Does my reciever have enough umph to push them? if not what would be a good amp at a reasonable cost that could so i canstart to budget for that as well. any post to help me on this is greatly appreciated. thanks.

You are real close to the speaker system I have. I have four 5B, a 5C and a Bravus 12. In retrospect, I probably should have done the 4B for the surrounds and saved a bit of dough, but what the heck. I am keeping them.

You are dropping some good coin for speakers, and I would suggest not skimping on the amp. The sensitivity issue has been run through the mill here, and you can get some good information from reading the threads. Fact of the matter is, if you have good wattage, it really is a non issue. If you don't have wattage, well then, that is a different story.

You don't have to drop a ton of cash to get a good amp. And the bad news, sort of, is you will not be getting your speakers for a couple months anyway, given they are now on backorder. Trust me, they will be worth the wait. This will give you a bit more time to save up.

I went with the Onkyo 805. Dollar for dollar, you will not get a better amp for the price. The sweet spot for this amp is $699, and is easy to get for that price if you are patient. It is especially easy to get for that if you will take silver. Black is a bit harder to get in at that price, but is doable. I got mine at Fry's Electronics. Amazon often offers it for that price too. The unit will get hot, and should have ample circulation around it. Mine is on top of my entertainment center, so it has plenty of room to breathe. That is a big consideration.

My amp only was 23% of my total purchase. In your situation, you are spending a bit less for speakers than I did, and buying the amp I am recommending will be a about 37% of the total purchase. You could do the 705, which is 150 or so less, and is almost as good as the 805. As far as wattage goes, it is only 10 WPC less than the 805. There are other differences, and you can easily assess those differences on Onkyo's web site. This would get you to exactly the same proportion of amp to total dollars spent of 23%.

My research led me to believe that a 25/75 ratio would be the best for my total budget. I only went 49 dollars over my 3K budget. Another frequent contributer here, Jack Gates, also has the 805. His posts lead me to believe that he loves his as much as I do. He is very knowlegable about all things sound, and if the 805 was good enough for him, it made me feel better about getting the 805. I was lurking around here before I purchased anything (and AVS Forums official thead.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=772081 ) And yes, I read the whole thing.

So, the long and short of what I am saying here....is the sensitivity of the line something to consider....yes. But....with most current, moderately priced amps, you will have more than enough wattage to overcome the reduced sensitivity. If you have that, then IMHO, it is a non issue. My system fills my almost 3000 cubic foot room, with volume to spare.

I hope my post helps, and I hope others chime in as well. There are many smart cookies on this board. Read all you can. Just beware of paralysis from overanalysis! I was there!

Good luck to you! I know you will love your speakers. And if you don't (aint gonna happen,...but) the pay return shipping. No risk here!

In classic form, Scottiemon raises many a good point. It really all depends on what you are looking to get out of your receiver me thinks. I assumed as well that you were talking about the Onkyo 505, so this post would be a response with that in mind. We are currently driving our new speakers in one of our demo rooms with the Onkyo 875. Granted, it has 140 watts per channel as opposed to the 505's 75 watts (and from their websites specs, that's at 2 channels driven) but the 875 can play any of our current speakers with TONS of room to spare. My ears couldn't handle how loudly that receiver would play our speakers. I have also heard them driven with a smaller T amp that produces 15 watts @ 2 channels driven and they can play loud enough for pretty moderate listening levels.

The thing is, these receivers are going to sound very similar at lower listening levels. Where you may need the extra power would be for a lot louder listening levels, because for the most part at moderate listening levels, you are only going to be using a small fraction of your receivers power to drive your speakers. For a room your size, if you think you are going to want to listen at loud listening levels, I might recommend shooting for a receiver that had closer to 100 watts per channel. As Dan said he's got a Onkyo 805 with 130 watts per channel that will play the speakers loud with room to spare. An amp like the 505 would play the speakers pretty loud, but you may not have much room to really crank it so to speak...

Hope this opinion helped a bit. Do you have any clarification on exactly which receiver you own, or are looking at? Were we correct in assuming you were looking at the 505?  

The reciever is an onkyo 550 (HT-R550 to be exact) it was part of a htib. http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater-systems/onkyo-ht-sr800-black/4507-6740_7-32421727.html heres the specs as posted on cnet it list that it has

but it will not at all blast you away. i dont know if its the quality of the reating of watts or not. i looked up the 805 which is i wouldnt say out of my price range as of course nothing is its just a matter of how many weeks months or years your willing to save and then of course something is better by then.  i did notice the thd is only .05 on the 805 and under .1 is unaudible. but as the volume increases is this magnified or the readings obscured (are the getting this rating at 1 watt or 100?) the sesitivity of the onkyo speakers i believe ar 88. I am so ready for aperions but definetly dont want to judge them by an inadiquate reciever as it would take me more than 1 month to save for a better one as well as i dont want to purchase another and waste the dough and time till i can get the aperions. i have had a hk reciever before that  if i remeber right was rated at 60wpc but seemed to me to have a great more umph. but that was years ago and maybe it was a good reciever that i had great memories of and am over remembering the performance. thank you all for the replies it is greatly appreciated. I also read somewhere i think in one of these forums that aperion also rates there speakers as they actually are where other manufactures cushion the numbers for sales numbers. i gues as a watt really isnt a watt depending on the maker of a reciever. Thanks again and look forwarded to hearing and learning more.

505 is $230 shipped

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484685-REG/Onkyo_TX_SR505B_TX_SR505_Home_Theater_Receiver.html

605 is $399 shipped

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-b1u86ufWWqq/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=580TXS605B

I think we all (I'm the worlds worst) get caught up with wanting the best and needing the best. I bet it would be hard to tell a difference if you blind tested the 505, 605, and 805. Get whatever you can afford and put the money you saved back in the gas tank!

Regardless of your choice, be sure to buy your Onkyo from an authorized dealer. If you don't, you will have NO warranty. Crutchfield is, I am not sure about BH Photo.

*UPDATE 4/4* Fry's Electronics has the 505 on sale for $199. Authorized dealer.

I understand what Brown is saying. They probably do have similar sound. However, a bump up to the 705 or 805 will be able to play much louder. I am not sure if that is important to you or not.

One other consideration....you did not mention your video needs. There is big differences in video between the different models.

Another option to consider, if it is a budget issue, you always could bump down a bit to the 8" Bravus and have a little more for more wattage.

Just an idea. Regardless, it will sound mighty good.

Be sure to check in and let us know what you decided!

-Scott

Greetings,

I have the Onkyo HTR550 that came with the Onkyo SR800 HTIB system pushing:

5B's, 5C,422's in the rear (soon to be 4B's, thanks Aperion!)

That thing is rated 110 watts X 7 @ 1KHZ.  I'm suspecting it is going to put out around 80-90 Watts Per Channel @20KHZ.. Not sure how it all works but that is my estimation. 

 Not that it matters, to us because:

1.  We are using dedicated subwoofers and not running our other speakers full range. This really lightens the workload of the reciever.

2.  We are pushing 5 series, crossed over, with at least 80 watts of quality Onkyo circuitry which should be more than enough.

 Basically that HTR 550 is somewhere in between an Onkyo 505 and 605.  I called Onkyo and talked to one of their techs and they say it has the same circuitry and DACS as the 605 series.  So it pretty close to a 605 but you don't get the new HD audio formats via HDMI cable as the HDMI on the HTR550 only carries video. CNET really likes the performance of this receiver in their SR800 review.

Bottom line, mine works fine with the new 6ohm speakers, gets plenty loud for 2 channel music, multichannel music and movies sound superb.  The HTR550 is definately a capable midlevel receiver without all the bells and whistles as the Onkyo 605. Therefore if you went out and bought an 605 and hooked it up I would be really suprised if you noticed a big difference in sound quality and loudness...However, if you want to try it out and let us know I'm sure we'd love to hear about it.  I'm thinking If you wanted to get the best sound quality Onkyo has to offer than I would upgrade to the 805 series at least as it uses different processing and DACS.  Anyone else have any comments?

So my advise would be to keep your HTR550 and be confident that it is capable and will suit your needs until you can pony up enough dough for at least an Onkyo 805 or other company's high level receiver. 

Hope this helps.

Dan

Greetings,

            I don't think it would be fair to compare the Onkyo's HTIB speakers with the Aperions.  They are not even in the same class build quality wise and sound quality wise.  Rather than waste time in describing the differences I will just say the Aperions are much, much, much better.  Never again will I spend money on a HTIB system. If you've bought Aperions then rest assured you are going to notice a major difference.

Good Luck.

There are times when an electronics junky, like myself, suffers from something that I like to call a Placibo Effect.  This is when someone experiences something new and starts making biased conclusions based on insufficient testing.  This is because the "New" they are experiencing gives them a sudden feeling of Euphoria

I must admit that I was wrapped up in a sudden case of Euphoria after I hooked up my Yamaha RX-V661 receiver and feel I may have judged too quickly and misinformed you in my previous post.  I want to apologize but please understand this is a learning experience for me as well.

The reason I'm writing is because last evening I put my Onkyo HTR 550 back into the drivers seat and was pleasantly surprised.  This was due to the fact that I wasn't getting that bubble of sound I was looking for with the Yamaha.  Before I get into my differences I want to throw some numbers out there just to show how manufacturers can display their ratings differently…

The Onkyo HTR 550 is rated @ 110 WPC 2 channels driven @ 8ohms @1khz
Dynamic Power 4/8 ohms:  190W/130W (1Chnl Driven)

The Yamaha  RX-V661 is rated @ 90 WPC 7 channels driven @ 8ohms @20khz
Dynamic Power 4/8 ohms:  190W/120W (2 Chnl Driven)

To compare I've thrown in the numbers of the Onkyo SR605.
90 WPC 2 channels driven @8 ohms, @20 kHz
105 WPC Channels driven @8ohms @ 1kHZ
Dynamic Power 4/8 ohms: 180W/110W (1Chnl driven)

Now we may not know what all these numbers mean and how it affects performance but I think it gives us a rough estimate that they are all in the same ball park..No?  My point here is simply that we can't get caught up comparing the specs of receivers that are in the same ballpark as manufacturers appear to post them differently.  We should make our decisions based on our own listening tastes.

Getting over the numbers I want to get back to my comparisons, now that I've had about a month to listen to my Yamaha.  Let me just say the HTR 550 and Yamaha RX-V661 get plenty loud enough to enjoy my movies and music even for the lowered sensitivities of the new Aperion's.  In the beginning I had some issues with loudness, but through some tweaking have found out how to fix.

To start I want to say that I could not tell any difference in volume loudness and clarity even at higher levels.  This is comparing an HTIB HTR 550 Onkyo receiver with a standalone Yamaha RX-V661.   What I could tell was a difference in which the material was presented.  Both receivers, with EQ turned off, center width and image settings equal,  and calibrated offered unique sound fields.  The Yamaha seemed a touch more natural and up front while the Onkyo seemed to be quite a bit more airy and spacious created a larger bubble of sound around the listening positions both in 2 channel and 5 channel material.

To be quite honest I much preferred the open airiness and bubble of sound that the Onkyo gave. The Onkyo seemed to give a little more life to standard programming. Whether you call this post processing or whatever, I enjoyed the extra lift that was presented.

The Yamaha seemed clean and loud and presented material in a more natural manner.  However, I didn't experience the same bubble of sound on most material with the Yamaha.  2channel offered great imaging but it just didn't create as much of a surround field as the onkyo and for 5.1 channel material the center channel seemed more localized and separated from the TV.

I would have to say that to me, Aperion Speakers sound much better with the Onkyo than the Yamaha…There just seems to be a much larger soundfield.  I do have another Yamaha in the basement that I hooked up (HTR5250 90WPC).  It exhibited the same traits as the RX-V661 with a more upfront natural sound.

To conclude I just want to say that in terms of raw volume and power I don't think you are not going to notice any difference going from one AVR to another with similar specs.  In this case and HTIB receiver earned my affection over a $500 RX-V661 with similar specs because I preferred the way it presented the material in a more spacious and enveloping manner.  If I were to ever consider upgrading my AVR's again I would look to at least get something with %60-%100 more power per channel.  In other words a significant upgrade (cough SR805).  But right now I have my bubble of sound and can live with it, well for at least another month

So for those of you with your 75-100 wpc receivers don't fret.  You should have enough juice to power these things. Be happy and spend your money on speakers… if you aren't happy then  make sure you save some dough to buy a significant upgrade over what you have now, but most importantly make sure it sounds the way you want it to.

Hope this helps someone…

Go for the TX-SR805!

Amazon has it today for $599 delivered - that is an incredible bargain for a brand new unit with 2 year warranty.