Hi,

I have the above speakers.  They sound great with home theater. 

However, with CDs, playing in 5 channel stereo, they are lacking.  I have an Onkyo CD player and a Denon 1600 receiver.  The base and mids sound fine.  But, the higher end (high hat, some vocals, etc.) sounds 'tinny' and muffled.  We turned up all the treble as a test with Smash Mouth's "Who's There" and it was terrible!  You couldn't hear the distict taps of the cymbals; they were all mushed together.  It sounded like a 'cheap AM Radio.'  When I changed the setting to stereo, the cymbals were much better.  But, I then lose the depth of the 5 channel stereo.

In addition, some vocals sound thin, others don't.  On some spots in some songs the vocals sound low in comparison to the music, almost leaving me wishing there was a way to increase the volume of the vocals.

The receiver is set up for the appropriate distances and speaker sizes per Aperion's recommendation.  I've used the SPL meter to ensure similar DB levels for each speaker.

The room is 13 by 24, with the Sub, fronts (on Aperion stands), and center are on the long side of the wall all around the TV (50 inch).  The subs are in the back wall (long side) in the corners.  I have them turned up to accomodate for the longer distance to the center spot.

I'm wondering if it is the receiver or some setting; given the rave reviews on the speakers.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Tom

Some more questions...

ASSUMING that it is a receiver problem and I need to upgrade, I've read some reviews on the Denon 3805/6.  We enjoy rich base and depth of music; while maintaining clear highs.  We like the feeling that the sound is in the center of the room and not really coming from the speakers... it just 'appears'.

Any comments on receivers to match the Aperions?

Thanks again!

Tom

no doubt the Denon 3806 will be an improvement over what you have.

Since you're looking for a musical receiver, you might also consider the Marantz SR7500 or SR8500. They both have a warm, rich sound with clear vocals and highs. The 8500 adds some power and features.

Hi Tom,

They quality of 5 channel music will depend on the cd itself in addition to the receiver.  If you are listening to a standard issue redbook cd,  it will be optimized for 2 channel listening.  Multi channel listening is better done with a DTS compatable cd, DVD Audio or SACD.

If the receiver supports Dolby ProLogic IIx (or dts equivalent), 5 channel musc can be faked... and does so pretty good sometimes from what I hear.

When it comes to music, I'm more of a two channel fan.  So if anyone can see flaw in my logic, feel free to correct me.

I'm using the Denon 3806 and am very impressed with it.  I have not tried to get multi channel music from a two channel source, but I can give it a whirl in the next couple of days and let you know what I think.

Hi Tom,

I intend to give you a call later this afternoon, but I thought I would post here anyway on the off chance that you might check in during the daytime hours.

If I had to nail it down to something, I'd say that the reason you are experiencing such a dramatic difference between your 2-channel mode and the all channel stereo mode would be the power supply in this unit.

Before anyone starts jumping up and down, I should say that Denon is not in the business of making an underpowered amp. That said, what I've read on this unit (keeping in mind I've not played with this model) seems to indicate a big difference between it's capabilities in 2-channel applications versus multichannel applications.

It would be feasible for you to get good Home theater performance, but poorer 5-channel stereo performance because, in that 5-channel mode, the Denon is driving all channels simultaneously, supposedly with an equal amount of power distributed to all of those speakers and at full bandwidth. With Dolby Digital 5.1, the speakers aren't always being driven simultaneously and the surround channels are receiving a more limited bandwidth of information.

I'm usually the last one urging people to go out and just buy a new receiver (with the exception of my parents. Their time has come). In this case, though, it might be worth your efforts to give the 3806 a try. If you do so, plan on a manual calibration-stay away from that auto-setup mic.

Caleb,

OK, I'm feeling a LOT better!

With the configuration/ settings you told me about last night, 2 channel stereo sounded OK; enough to buy the Denon 3806 receiver.

I did that this morning and set it up manually (just the speakers not EQ).  And, WOW!!!!!!  5 channel stereo sounds incredible.  2 channel is very crisp and clear.

Net, I'm pretty much sold, and more importantly my wife is!  I was fearing returning everything.  After she listened to the 3806 with various CDs in 5 channel mode, she wanted to keep them. 

This evening will be the HT test, which should be awesome since the Denon AVR 1600 was good enough for us.  Can't wait.

I still may call you to check on some settings, but thanks a lot for your help.

Aperion customer service is incredible!!

Tom

Hi Tom:

Glad to hear things are going so well.  I think it would be very helpful if you could share the "magic" you and Caleb performed in your set-up. In particular: what process did you follow, what configuration are you using for 2 channel and 5 channel music as well as for movies.

Thanks,

Ken,

(Caleb, please make any corrections) We ensured:

1- sub was 6 to 12 inches of the wall, had a crossover of 80, was between 9 and 12 (clock analogy) on the loudness side

2- played in 2 channel mode with all bass and treble flat

3- that there were no crossed polarities

While this sounds simple, I was only playing in 5 channel mode and since the receiver couldn't correctly power the speakers I was adjusting the bass, treble, and sub to try and compensate.  Then when I'd flip to 2 channel it sounded worse.

We also assumed that 5 channel would not work with that receiver (60 watts per channel) and only played 2 channel (after we fixed it).

Since 2 channel sounded OK; that gave me some hope with the speakers so I purchased the Denon AVR 3806 receiver.  I used the auto set up and room eq. for 6 spots.  I have the bass set to LFE and main. I'm typically playing in 5 channel with audessy (sp) room eq.  It sounds awesome; the channel separation is amazing.

For movies, if DTS available, I'm using DTS in straight 5 channel sound.  I've used night mode, it seems to work OK.  Movies also sound great.

As a side note, I've read tons of reviews on this receiver being very difficult to set up.  THIS IS TRUE!  UNLESS you connect a monitor to the receiver; you can then see the entire set up menu (versus 2 lines of it on the receiver display) and following it is much easier.  You even get graphical displays of some of the settings.

Hope this helps,

Tom