Thanks Davey Gravy.

But more importantly do you have any input on Speaker stand crisis?  They are cut at 30" but they look kind of tall.  I also have a a couch that is lower to the ground:  http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49822723

I'm thinking that I need to get the tweeters more level with the listening position.

We are in full crisis mode now. 

1.mile,

I have the 532’s as secondary front mains mainly because I didn’t want to send them back after receiving the 632’s. The 805 supplies input to the Sony AVR via pre-out and once the Sony matches relative volume levels with the 805 the volume control 805 controls both AVR’s and relative SPL tracks well with both pair of front mains. I can get some interesting sound effects mixing sound fields with both AVR’s. Also, if I want to be “gruff” about it I have a little extra punch when drowning out the neighbors yapping dogs and maybe the neighbors might get the hint but I doubt it.

Russ,

I have the DV-981HD Oppo. I have the Oppo set to 1080p and the XBR sees it as 1080p. It does a better job of filling the XBR’s screen than I expected and SD DVD’s actually look pretty good but I am sure not as good as Blu-Ray. Some of the DVD’s look as good as 1080i on the few channels I get in HD. Some SD DVD’s upconvert a lot better than others. I am happy with the combination of the Oppo and the XBR

Dan,

The 632’s are primary fronts

The 532-C is my center and gives me all the center I need. I don’t like a lot of center presentation because IMO it detracts from the L/R.

The S-10 does a really nice job. It was my first Aperion purchase. I immediately had to anchor all pictures moveable objects on shelves and even isolate the sheet metal in the fireplace insert with tin foil damping. I run the S-10 at about 40% with the 805 set to 0db. I have the S-10 crossover set to 160 Hz. I let the 805 control the Sub’s crossover. With the 805 I can control the crossover, equalization and level of each speaker pair.

The room size is about 4600 cu ft. With both amps this setup will run at 110 db SPL but I only did that once for a test.

I think it is suggested that the tweeter should be close to ear level. With your 30-inch stands and with the 5B’s tweeter about 10 inches above the stand that should be fine. I would be cautious if you plan to cut the stands down. You will need to maintain the height of each pillar very close so the top plate remains square to the world or level.

Actually mounted on the wall are picture frames with the backside of the glass painted black so they become subtle mirrors and are just there for accent. I did the same thing with the glass shelves on the TV stand and AV rack. I did not like the see through look of the glass shelves. I like the blend of the black with the Cherry

My Aperion Speakers:

2) 632 L/R, 2) 532 L/R, 1) 532 C, 2) 534-SS, 2) 422 rear surrounds and an S-10 Sub.

8 driven by Onkyo TX-SR805

2 driven by Sony STR-DE997

Some other components:

Oppo DV-981HD DVD player - really makes most SD DVD’s look good stretched to fill the whole screen. I am happy with it’s performance.

Sony VCR

Sony DVD player DVP-C650D

Sony CD player (cant even turn the thing on with the remote) so CD’s will now be played in the Sony DVD player that is connected to the 805 via 5.1 multi-channel.

Thanks for your comments on my HT setup and I will try to tone mine down a bit.

Jackson

Jack,

I have to admit I had a really hard time deciding on whether to upgrade to the new stuff.  I was seriously, I mean seriously considering keeping my old 533 VAC and trading back my 532's for a pair of 632's A stock.  Simply upgrading to the 632's A stock would have been cheaper than upgrading everything to the new line.  Sometimes I sit here and wonder how my system would sound if I would have just settled for a 632 upgrade. I do notice the new speakers are harder to get going.   When I watch movies with the Yamaha RX-V661 I get to +16 DB (max) and sometimes I want to turn the Dial a skosh more.  I didn't have that problem with the 532's...but then again the trade off was that when I pushed the old line you would get a bit of distortion in the upper frequencies. In any event, I think the next step in acheiving high quality sound would come from getting a seperate amp vs a standalone receiver.

 Anyway, I really like that cherry finish.  Maybe when I get older and I need to replace my JBL's downstairs I can upgrade to the Cherry.I really need to take a picure of my basement setup.  The JBL Studio series have 12" woofer built right into them. The are made out of white birch and are massive.

  I am also dying to hear an Aperion Subwoofer, preferably the old S-10 or S-12 and the new Bravus 10D.  If anyone on here lives near Plymouth MI and owns one let me know.  Not that I'm not happy with my Velodyne, I'm just intrigued.

 Wow.  I haven't looked at DVD players in a while.  I have never heard of Oppo before.  The last time I bought a DVD player was about 4 years ago.  I bought a used Panasonic XP30.  That thing is pretty kick ass and was pretty popular back in the day.  I don't think I'll ever get rid of it, best 480P picture I've ever seen.  Way better than my PS3 picture. 

I guess you could say that I'm a hi-fi wanna be.  Of course the WAF is the deciding factor, but the best I've ever owned was Best Buy's top of the line, which isn't saying much.  Although I've wanted much more I could never afford it.  That's probably why I'm so giddy and bubbly about my new Aperions.  Believe me I've taken many, many trips to Almas Hi fi in Michigan and drooled over the high end eletronics. But, Aperion is the closest I'm gonna get.  If I had it my way I'd have 6T's, 6C, 6B's and one of these: http://www.adcom.com/prod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&cid=43&sid=3&prodid=1146

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I'm not trying to show off or anything when I post on here.  I'm just an average jJoe that likes to talk about home electronics and I like to live vicariously through others who can afford nicer equipment then me.  Sometimes I do get a little excited.  But That's about it.  Oh and by the way, it takes a lot to get me disgruntled so you will probably never receive a innapropriate retort from me. Well if you can't tell I'm rambling on so have a great night.

Go Pistons!

Dan,

couple things....you don't have to go with a separate amp to achieve the sound you are looking for. I checked out your amp, and it is rated at 90X7 without specifying how much distortion is at that level. Jack and I have the Onkyo 805, which is 130 watts per, 8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC. It is even higher at 6 ohm, but the whole ohm thing is hard to measure given that a speakers impedence varies with frequency. There are other amps that will give you more "balls", but I only want to speak to what I have. And at $699, I don't think there is anything out there that can touch it, dollar for dollar. I have a family room that is almost 3000 cubic feet, and I have 4 5B and a 5C with the Bravus 12. It is more volume than I can ever imagine. I have only tested maxing out once, and the Aperions took everything I could feed it. It was clean, and at a volume I almost could not bear. And this is from someone who also has 1K watts in my car...yes car. This is the first time in my life that my home system trumps my car system. Everything in my house moves! I am in California, so I already have earthquake putty holding down my stuff. If I didn't, I would need some. Jack mentioned having to reinforce some stuff too.

Also, if your Panasonic DVD looks better than your PS3, are you comparing 480 P to 480 P? I also was not overly impressed with the PS3 upconversion. I picked up a Toshiba HDDVD for 99 bucks that I use for my standard definition DVDs. I will say that it does a better job than the PS3 with upconversion/upscaling. However, nothing can come even close to BluRay! If Blu does not give you wood, there is something drastically wrong.

Be happy with the Velodyne. That is one of many that was up for consideration before I went with the Bravus. There is no way of me knowing if it is better or worse than the other subs that I was considering, as I could not do an A/B test. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. I have no complaints with the Bravus, and the small footprint does wonders for the WAF. I do like how everything matches (my Pioneer Plasma is also piano black).

Enjoy what you have, and realize, you won't have to mortgage your house to take the next step if you so choose.

BTW...being a Chicago Bulls fan (born and raised, now live in LA) I cannot share with your go Pistons remark. Go Bulls! Oh, wait....Go Lakers...yeah yeah yeah, that's the ticket!

Rock on!

Hey Dan, is that +16 db max on your Yamaha and I am guessing that it is a relative setting?

My 805 goes to + 18 relative and is more than sufficient to shake my world with movies that sometimes seem to require a bit more volume than other sources.

I did not know of Oppo until I read some posts here and their equipment list so I checked out Oppo and read many reviews. The DV-981HD will play back in 1080p using SD DVD’s according to my KDL-46XBR4. The PQ is really good, good enough that I am not considering Blu-Ray at this time.

I thought the PS3 upconverted rather well according to reviews but your comment about the Pany being better makes me glad I bought the Oppo. I don’t play games much anyway and when I do its on my desktop with my wonderful Bose AM7’s for sound.J

I can get within 2 feet of the XBR and see no pixelation or artifacts as I did with my now retired Sony DVD player when playing back SD DVD’s. That older Sony will be demoted to CD’s through 5.1 Multi-Channel.

If you already think you may need more power you may in fact need more.

My friend Scott and I have the 805 and believe me it Rocks even with DVD’s that require a touch more on the volume control. Even though I have needed to anchor things in the main listening area, that works well, I can play back a movie like Desperado and walk into my laundry/workshop and hear things vibrating. I wont anchor the paint cans, brushes, hammers, wrenches or other stuff; I will just close the door.

Jack,

If you ever want to try a good little speaker for your computer check out the (and don't laugh) xbox spherex speakers on parts express.  I have been really  impressed with this little speaker.  I use it for music from my ipod, with a 6.5 tang bang sub I made.  I think they are only 39.99 a pair.  They look real odd, and probably use some of that "trickery" that bose uses, but for the money they are hard to beat.  I gave my friend 5 of these and a little used denon 1402 and he is super impressed.  Mind you he had a HTIB before so he doesnt have a ton to go off of.  I love parts express, and if you are into the building there is also apexjr.com, madisound.com. 

Oh yea and GO BLAZERS.........................next year! 

Hmm...Intereting.  I thought there was no comparison between a high quality amp seperate and a receiver.  Sort of like Car Stereo...No-serious audiophile uses the built in amp on an aftermarket head unit, they always invest in amp seperates.  Therefore i thought the same would be true for home audio.  What I do know is my fathers 2.1 setup sounds better than mine.  He is running a pair of 1990 M&K bookshelves, has a 15" M&K sub and is running a 15year old Adcom Amp (http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/678/index4.html) with an Adcom preout.  Funny thing is, His 18 year old amp is still going for $350+ street value (http://cgi.ebay.com/Near-Mint-Adcom-GFA-555-II-Power-Amplifier-200-watts_W0QQitemZ150242704640QQcmdZViewItem)  His 2.1 setup just sounds much cleaner, fuller and louder than my 2.1 This makes me think a bit. I'm thinking his amp, not his speakers, is what sets his system apart from mine.  Of course we are comparing 90 watts per channel to 200 watts per channel.  So, maybe that's the only difference, 200 wpc vs 90 wpc....But where are you going to get a 200 wpc reciever for an affordable price these days?  That's why I'm thinking an amp seperate just makes sense for the best possible sound?  Can todays mid priced receivers amps really compete with what you would find in a quality amp such as the one listed above, even if it is 18 years old? 

BTW...Here are the specs on the Yamaha RXV-661 taken from the manual.

"Hey Dan, is that +16 db max on your Yamaha and I am guessing that it is a relative setting?"

Yes, my receiver volume control goes from -80db to +16.5db.  Kind of weird.  Anyway, I usually need to crank it up to about +15 DB to get it pretty loud, enough to satisfy my tastes, while watching movies.  I think this a direct result of the increased power requirements of the new speakers.  I'm sure the old line would have gotten plenty loud at these levels, but then again they were more succeptable to distortion at higher volumes.  I did get the receiver for $170, which was more than I could afford anyway. 

"I did not know of Oppo until I read some posts here and their equipment list so I checked out Oppo and read many reviews. The DV-981HD will play back in 1080p using SD DVD’s according to my KDL-46XBR4. The PQ is really good, good enough that I am not considering Blu-Ray at this time".

NICE...See below for the reason the PQ is outstanding...

"I thought the PS3 up-converted rather well according to reviews but your comment about the Pany being better makes me glad I bought the Oppo. I don’t play games much anyway and when I do it's on my desktop with my wonderful Bose AM7’s for sound. "

I think the PS3 works well as a Blu Ray player, but standard def DVD play back leaves something to be desired.  Here is an awesome link to the infamous DVD Player shootout. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all Notice where the  Playstation 3 sits with a score of 63.  Whereas my 8 year old Panny XP30 has a score of 91.  Your player got a score of 96, very nice.  You will notice that both the XP30 and DV981-HD  players use the Genesis chip. It is no coincidence that high marks and Genesis chips go hand in hand.  I also used to have the Denon DVD 1600 that scored very well and it to had a Genesis chip.  Although my older Panny XP30 doesn't upconvert to 1080 it still has a kick ass picture that rivals Blu Ray....And I'm not just being bubbly.  Anyway, like I stated I haven't researched DVD players in a while, but it is nice to see that my choice from 5 years ago is still near the top of the list when compared to DVD players of today. 

"If you already think you may need more power you may in fact need more."

Yes I do need more.  Here's my question....Since I already have the receiver that accepts lossless audio via PCM through my PS3 and has pre-outs for a seperate amp, would it be wise to upgrade to a new receiver or should I get a seperate multichannel 5.1 amp..

I have never seen one of those other DVD players inperson for upscaling but I thought the PS3 does an ok job..  SD Def can only get so good..

Jack,

 The upgrade for blu ray for the most part isn't for video primary in your case as it would be for audio.. You already have a kick butt receiver and kick butt speakers(obviously) all you need is the lossless format.. YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED!! The difference between DD and PCM 5.1, True HD, DTS-HD is jagundous.  You will be happy with the audio especially with your setup..

 Rockarruda..

I have noticed a difference with the new HD audio codecs.  Altough my Yamaha doesn't decode onboard my PS3 does then it sends it PCM.  It was confusing at first becuase my receiver just says PCM when playing the new HD audio codecs but when I press select on the PS3 it shows the audio format that is being played.

The difference between SD DVD and Blu Ray isn't as big as I thought it would be, but it is better....  Not as big a difference as between VHS and SD DVD.

Dan,

Of course a separate amp will yield you superior (assuming you buy superior) results. My point was that you don't have to break the bank to get great sound, with ample power. I don't think I could have done better for what I spent, given I wanted an AVR, not just amplification. My ratio was 25/75 amp to speakers.

I assumed money was an object. That's all. Good luck with your upgradeitus.

And for BluRay....rent Ratatoui (sp?), or Casino Royale. Tell me if the difference is not breathtaking! Not all BluRays are "built" the same.

-Scott

I do have upgradeitus and i do not have the money to satisfy it.  So yes money is an object.  I couldn't afford an AVR but I found the RX-V661 on ebay at a price I couldn't pass up.... I'm just thinking more on the lines of down the road....

Here's what's currently in my upgradeitus que:

Bravus 10D subwoofer

6B's or 5T's

5.1 multichannel amp.

Aperion hat....Oh wait, I'm supposed to be getting one of those for my review, right?

I currently have 3 receivers at home now.

Yamaha HTR 5250:

100W x 5 20hz-20khz  .06% THD @8ohms

Onkyo HTR 550
110W X 7 20hz-1KHZ .09% THD @8ohms
Not sure what the 1KHZ means?  Can anyone help me out here?

Yamaha RX-V661

90W X 7 20hz-20KHZ THD .06% THD @8ohms

I was thinking that the HTR 5250 would give me a little more power but for some reason the Center Channel doesn't seem to create as big a soundstage with the HTR 5250 as it does with the RX-V661??? Maybe it is the old DSP modes on the HTR5250....

What would be really cool is if they made an awesome 5.1 receiver with all the bells and whistles as the new 7.1 stuff. 2 less channels means less watts and I would hope that equates to less dollars...I don't see myself going to 7.1 for a very long time.  There is just no way in my current room.

Dan,

“Yes I do need more.  Here's my question....Since I already have the receiver that accepts lossless audio via PCM through my PS3 and has pre-outs for a seperate amp, would it be wise to upgrade to a new receiver or should I get a seperate multichannel 5.1 amp..”

If you bought another AVR then you would have three, right? You may want to research just a 5.1 or 7.1 channel amp.

This is why Fred and I were posting about speaker sensitivity when people here started discussing the lower sensitivity of the new line. If you did not see SPL versus Power Graph for different sensitivity speakers, I will post the link below again. It may help you decide just how much more power you need.

http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/jacgat55/?action=view&current=Power_vs_SPL_LinearSPL-83-106.jpg

I use the pre-out of the 805 as input to my Sony AVR. The 805’s pre-out tracks in level with the volume control of the 805 which works good because then I only have to adjust the Sony volume once to get a match in SPL between the two amps driving separate pairs of fronts. My 805’s volume goes from-81.5 to +18db but I can change that display from relative to absolute.

Jack

If you are considering a 5 channel amp take a look at the Emotiva XPA-5.  200 watts per channel and the best bang for the buck at $799.00 unless you go used. People are raving about that amp.

Before you go that route, check the volume settings for each channel in your receiver's set-up.  On my Onkyo I can change each channel from -12db to +12 db. Probably something similar on your unit.

I wasn't happy with the volume on an Onkyo 702 receiver that used to in my main system until I realized the individual channel volume levels were set too low.   I was disappointed at first in that receiver until I modified those settings. 

I think that may be what Jack is saying as well - he helped me with a related issue a few weeks ago on my 805, too.  Audyssee had set the volume levels too low. I was incorrectly concerned about the 805's ability to drive the 6B's.

Maybe you have considered this already but its worth taking a look.

Mike