Dan,

Concerning your desire to obtain better sound for your kitchen, here’s my two-cents.

I think this is an ideal application for something in the ceiling: decent sound and you have better control over placement/location that doesn’t intrude or require any usable space.  Biggest problem I see is wiring, and I’m assuming you’re intending to hide everything.  If you want to go this route, you might consider speaking with someone who’s experienced in this type installation to see if it’s feasible and affordable.  If it’s feasible and something you might elect to try yourself, ask lots of questions and get his recommendations on code-approved cabling.  After discussing with an installer, and if you do elect to do this yourself you should feel obligated to compensate him for his time (I would).  You might get lucky and be able to come through the floor from your basement, into the kitchen cabinetry and then into the ceiling.  If your ceiling joists are parallel to the wiring run, you’ve just hit the jackpot.  If not, then you can look at the flat wiring systems that are surface mounted and can be hidden/painted across the ceiling then into the speakers.  I think ceiling-mounts will be the most costly approach but offers the most eye-appealing and space-saving installation…and maybe the best sound as well.

An alternative you might want to consider that would simplify some of the wiring and likely provide pretty good sound would be one of the smaller soundbars.  This is something that could be mounted near a wall-ceiling interface where it’s more out of the way and would probably give you great dispersion and better fill.  This is probably an easier installation than the ceiling approach but now you’ve got an exposed box somewhere. 

Whatever route you go, I’d play it safe and use wiring code-approved for in-wall installation (excepting the flat systems) and AWG 14 should be more than enough. 

You might also want to consider something wireless but I’m not familiar with this format.  This is the least-appealing approach to me.

Decisions, decisions, decisions…ain’t life fun?

Fred

Dan,

Here are my thoughts based on some of our conversations which I’ve edited (with yours in bold).

o        Sonically, are you happy with the presentation of your 5Bs?  Yes, they sound beautful and clear.  They just don't give me the 3 dimensional space I'm looking for.

I’m confident either of the small towers will improve presentation and provide you more fullness, but I doubt you’ll improve the dimensionality any (if at all…sorry, but you need another wall!).

o        The surround field sounds to far in front of me when sitting in my normal listening position. 

I was going to suggest you try moving your speakers nearer or farther from the wall behind them, play with the toe-in, then adjust your seating position closer to the sweet spot.  However, your fireplace pretty much dictates your seating position.  You should still play around with speaker positioning and toe-in because small adjustments can offer audible improvements.  This may not get you “there” but, hopefully, maybe a little “closer”.

o        If you’re basically satisfied, then what, precisely, do you find missing with your present setup?  2 channel music performance needs improvement and a bit more spaciousness/integration in the surround field for movies. 

Either of the small towers will be an improvement for 2.0/2.1 listening, and for any other format for that matter.  Regarding the surround field, I think I recall seeing a picture where your rear surrounds were mounted around ear-level directly behind your seating position.  If true, then IMHO, this is too “direct” and counters your desire for spaciousness.  Here’s a thought (and please don’t laugh)…I’d try to temporarily aim them upward toward the back wall and ceiling, play around with the angularity, EQ and time delay, then see what happens.  Hopefully you’ll get a more diffuse sound with lots of reflections.  If you like this, then figure out a way to make this more visually appealing as a concession to your wife (hide them with a planting since horizontal directivity isn’t a factor anymore?).

o        Since my kitchen is adjacentI also like to listen to music while I am cooking and cleaning and I do a lot of that stuff.  The 5B's just don't give me enough fill.

Nothing you’re contemplating is going to solve this problem since most of what you’re now hearing in the kitchen are reflections.  See my earlier post for your kitchen speakers.

o        one thing I have noted while my 5B’s are away is the Denon seems even more powerful just pushing the front three.

The amplification demands on your Denon have been reduced because you’re running more sensitive speakers with the 92 dB JBLs.

o        Did I start off with the wrong speakers in the first place?

I don’t think so…it’s just that you and your system are now evolving.

Concerning evolving and upgrading: maintain your interest in this hobby, continue to explore, study, investigate and learn.  If you’re patient and contemplative, I suspect one day you’ll hear yourself saying: "Why should I, I've already discovered my golden soundstage."  And if your wife is anything like mine, you’ll hear her saying…”thank God.”

So, what do I think you should do? 

Discuss this with your wife and, if you both decide you can swing it, go for the 5Ts if you both agree they fit your room.  Yeah, I know you say you don’t have upgradeitus but you sure display a lot of the symptoms: if you were to go for the 4Ts, I think you’ll soon find yourself asking…”what if?”

To your question:

o        Let me ask all you men a serious question.  Is the WAF a really important factor in this whole process? She seemed saddened with the thought of losing the center and the surround in favor of 6T's.

At last…something for which I feel amply qualified to provide an answer!

First of all (and of least importance), there’s no way in the world I’d give up the capability of a 5.1 (or more) for anything less when I can always turn OFF what I don’t want ON. 

But, more importantly, I’ve just gotta’ ask…are you freakin’ serious????  It’s a family room and she’s the most vital part of your family!  In addition, she’s supportive of your desire to find something better, willing to sacrifice and spend a little more, and thinks the small towers are “Cute”!  Sadden this young lady????  No way in hell would I ever consider this: you’ve been blessed with a keeper, Daniel…and she’ll never ever cost you a lung!!!

I hope some of this has been helpful.

Fred

BTW –

Whatever that turtle-looking thing is on the right-hand side in one of your pictures, it appears hard and shiny…meaning it’s reflective.  You should start parking it to the left side of your room where you need the reinforcement. ;-)

Hey Dan,

 Since you started this thread I've been playing around with my setup. I have my right 5T speaker in the middle of my room so sonically it's similar to you with the loss of a wall. I think what you have described missing is really a difference between stereo and and the mono sound you get when you're outside the soundfield. I think toe-ing the speakers in may make it worse but it's worth a shot. For me my right speaker needed tweaking to make it balanced by sound (increased by 1dB compared to the left speaker).

The 5T's are very powerful and fill my room with plenty of sound. I keep the volume below 70db on the onkyo 806 almost all the time. As I read in your other post that your bass extension is more than adequate for the house so I think going with the 5T's will give you an immediate improvement with the sound in your living room and give you a good improvement with the kitchen. I think they just put out more punch. If you're still not satisfied you can always set up some IC or IW speakers or even just test the idea by running some speaker wire into the kitchen for a couple of hours with another pair and see if that helps. I can tell you that for me there is nowhere in the room that sounds as good as the sweet spot.  

Hope that helps! 

Dan,

I'm just wondering if you've come to a decision on the 5Ts yet?  Just interest on my part and I'm not trying to rush you (far be it from me to do that, right?)

I'm not meaning to throw another variable into the equation but, if you've not yet pulled the trigger (patience), here's another thought that might prove beneficial and "keep the fire burning": go for the 4Ts now, spend the savings on the Disney-thing for the family, and look forward (Anticipation) to up-grading (evolving) next year to the 5Ts!

 Let us know which way you're going to go, OK?

 Fred

Dan,

Another FUBAR on my part...sorry.

I said: "go for the 4Ts now, spend the savings..."

I meant to say: "go for the 4Ts now and invest the savings"

One of these days I'll remember to proof before I post.

Fred

BTW - did the presentation change any when you moved the turtle?  ;-)

Greetings,

I got ahold of a pair of returned black 5T's for a disocunted price.  I figured the savings would make up for additional shipping charges that would occur if i went with the 4T's and upgraded to 5T's in another year. 

I would like to thank everyone who offered their thoughts on my upgrade decision. I will report back when they are delivered and setup.

Fred,

I haven't moved the Turtle yet.  I'm going to try it out.  My wife has been wanting to get a small chair to place in that area. So if the turtle helps than that will reinforce my decision to get the chair in the future, once the little one outgrows the turtle.

Congrats on the upgrade, Dan.  Keep us posted on how the towers turn out for you.

In hindsight, I can't believe you didn't get a turtle with acoustically-treated panels for your child.  What were you thinking?