I just hooked up my new S10 and two 532LRs to my new Onkyo SR805.  I'm lovin' having quality equipment.  I have two more 532LRs and a 532C in the boxes (to complete my 5.1).  I can't hook them up until Aperion ships the mounting bracket sometime in April, but for now I like what I hear in Stereo.

This is my first AVR and my first set of quality speakers.  If anyone has any advice, I'd be glad to take it.  I initially couldn't get the sub to work, but David straightened me out by pointing out that I had it hooked up to the wrong "subwoofer" output on my reciever.  THANKS, DAVID!

Anyone have any suggestions on settings for the S10?  I set the crossover for the sub in the reciever at 80THX, how does the reciever crossover setting interact with the crossover setting on the sub (the knob on the back)?  I'm still trying to understand what the different setting mean. 

Also, I have 16 AWG wire that is run through my family room (it was there when I bought the house).  I thought of pulling it and re-running 12 or 14 AWG, but we may be moving and don't want to put the effort in, if we are.  So, I planned on using the 16 AWG wires in the walls, but have run NEW 14 AWG for the FR & FL speakers.  Will I have an issue by mixing wire gauge?  I had some leftover 16 AWG wire that I was going to use for the center as well.

 Thanks for any help!

 Jason

Since you are using the crossover settings from your receiver, go ahead and set the crossover on your sub to the maximum value.  This will let your receiver do all the work.  The S10 works best if the volume on your sub is set to 1/2 or less.  80THX crossover on your receiver is a good starting point.

I have 12 gauge wire running my Aperion 7.1 system.  I have experimented with 16 gauge, and could not tell a difference.  BUT... I am not running my wire more than 30 feet to either speaker.  For a long run, consider using a larger size wire to avoid voltage drops.   There is only a difference of .1db between 18 gauge and 12 gauge.  Considering you already have the 16 AWG in place and this may not be a permanent installation, I would suggest leaving it.  

Jason, welcome to the forum.

I have the TX-SR805 and like how it drives my Aperion 7.1 Speakers.

My Aperion Speakers:

2) 632 L/R, 2) 532 L/R, 1) 532 C, 2) 534-SS, 2) 422 rear surrounds and an S-10 Sub.

8 driven by Onkyo TX-SR805

2 driven by Sony STR-DE997

I would let the 805 do the crossover for the S-10 and set the S-10’s crossover to 160 since you don’t want two separate crossovers interacting.

Also to get better LFE from the 805 to the S-10, I suggest you set the front mains to around 70HZ, not Full Band. A Full Band setting on the fronts may not turn on the S-10 with some sources like SDTV at low levels of volume. You can also then experiment with Sub crossover with the 805 from your remote to raise or lower.

I used 14 AWG for all my speakers with the longest run being 30 feet. Since you are considering moving, I would leave your wiring the way you have it configured now.

Even though I am pretty serious about using high quality wire (not necessarily high gauge) I concur with the preceding opions. Pulling new wires seems like a lot of effort if you're pretty sure you'll be moving soon. I always try to take into consideration the return on my investment. In this case, lots of time and hassle for very little, if any, perceived improvement.

 CD

Jack / JoeZ / Caleb,

 Thank you for the advice. 

What is LFE?  I've seen settings as I broused thru the on-screen settings options for my 805, I just didn't know what it is.  How do I set the front mains to 70Hz and what is that doing?

Does that cut-off any sound below or above 70Hz?

Again, thanks for the help.

 Jason

LFE - Low Frequency Effects (I think) is the ".1" channel in 5.1/7.1 systems.   You usually set the cross over (frequency at which all frequencies below will be filtered, in your case 70 Hz) in speaker set-up. 
Below.

No problem.  Glad to help where we can.

 5.1 channel audio consists of five discrete channels.  The channels are left, right, center, left surround and right surround, plus there's an optional channel Low-Frequency Effects (LFE), hence the 5.1 channels.

The LFE channel delivers bass-only information.  It is used to supplement the overall bass content of the program.  This is what gives the "deep" bass effect while watching movies.  This low frequency is often handled by a subwoofer in most HT systems, but some front speakers are capable of handling enough bass also. 

If you go into your receiver's OSD (on screen display), there should be a setting for speaker setup.  In most receivers, you can specify an individual crossover for each pair of speakers (fronts, center, left/right surrounds).  My Yamaha works a bit different, I set a single crossover for all speakers marked as SMALL in the speaker setup. 

 Hope this helps?

Jason,

With the 805’s OSD shown:

            (Menu)

                        Select (2) Speaker Setup.

                                    Select (2) Speaker Config.

                                                Select (Front) then < or > to change setting.

                                                            Press (Return) to exit when done with each menu.

The crossover setting for the Sub, (LPF of LFE) enable frequencies below the setting and the crossover settings for the rest of the speakers enable frequencies above the setting. Experiment with the various settings once you feel comfortable.

Although a bit confusing, The LPF (Low Pass Filter) cut-off allows the lower frequencies and attenuates frequencies higher than the cut-off frequency.

Setting the Fronts to say 70 HZ will allow more of the lower frequencies to be sent to the sub where if set to Full Band the Fronts will try to produce those sounds and divert some of the bass from the sub.

Thanks again All for your help.

 Jack - a question specific to the SR805.  When I go into the speaker configuration and set the fronts to 70 Hz, the system automatically sets the "Double Bass" to OFF.  Based on what's shown on the OSD, OFF is the THX setting.  I'm a bit confused, because I was told that I should have the "Double Bass" set to ON.  Is your's set to OFF, and if so, is your AVR still driving the sub?  I will try mine when I get home from work tonight to see how it works.  On my initial set-up, I set it to OFF (I assumed THX settings were the best), but got no sound from the sub (until I set "DoubleBass" to ON).

Second, if I set the LPF of LFE to 80 Hz and the fronts to 70 Hz, this should give me 10 Hz of overlap, right? 

 Thanks,

Jason

Jason,

Double Bass is available to switch ON/OFF only when the Fronts are set to Full Band. I like the results better with my 632’s set to 40HZ.

It would be worth your time I think to experiment with the various settings and let your ears guide you. Experimentation is a good idea since what works for me may not work for you regarding your preference in sound.

The 805 has so many speaker parameters that I ended up taking pix of the OSD after making changes in settings so I could easily go back if needed.

Yes I have Double Bass turned off and with my 632’s set to 40HZ. The sub turns on with SDTV input to the 805 via the 805’s LFE output.

I just checked my system and turned the volume down to –30db relative after a few minutes the Led on the S-10 turned Red. I then turned the SDTV broadcast up to –25db relative and then the Led turned green and Bass was output by the S-10.

The 10 HZ overlap would seem logical. Bass information is apparently sent to the LFE detection circuitry even if there is not a true LFE channel present.

Good to hear you got your sub working Jason. You'd be surprised at how many calls we get with people having the same issue. At first glance it is a bit confusing...Why 2 subwoofer "outputs" on the back of a receiver?!

Anyways glad you're good to go... 

HI Jason,

For you and anyone else that might come across this thread, I think it is important to clarify a couple of commonly misunderstood points.

LFE, as Ken pointed out, does stand for Low Frequency Effects. That nomenclature is a bit misleading, though. It might lead one to think that LFE = Subwoofer or LFE = Bass. Neither is true.

The LFE channel is a very specific track found on Dolby Digital or DTS labs encoding (is also found in DVD-Audio and SACD at the encoders discression). It is the .1 in 5.1 or 7.1 and that is all it is. It does not represent the entirety of bass information that is to be found on a DVD or any other 5.1 digital broadcast nor does it generically refer to bass from a CD or television broadcast.  Therefore, any settings in a receiver referring to LFE  apply only to the LFE track (and its reproduction) that I just mentioned. Those settings will not have a generalized effect on your subwoofer.

The settings that do affect your subwoofer are the crossover settings for your speakers, the subwoofer output level (in the calibration menu) and select other settings such as Onkyo's "double bass" or, in the case of a Denon, the option to set your subwoofer to reproduce LFE+Main. By default, if you select "full band" or "large" for your front left and right speakers, then your receiver will send no information to the subwoofer until it sees an LFE track from a DVD or some other digital source.

If you set your front left and right speaker's crossover frequency at 60hz, you're telling your receiver to start sending bass to your subwoofer instead of your front left and right speakers at about the 60hz mark. The further up the crossover goes, the more goes to the sub instead of the mains. If you were to set your front left and right speakers to Large and turn on Double bass, then it will send a full range signal to your mains and double that signal out to your subwoofer, effectively bypassing the crossover built into most receivers. In this case, engaging the crossover in your sub would be a good idea.

The LPF of LFE really ought to be set to 80hz. You don't want it going any higher than that, otherwise you make the subwoofer much more localizeable. The Onkyo won't let you drop it any lower than 80hz.

Hope this helps out.

Caleb:
I found this statement interesting: "If you were to set your front left and right speakers to Large and turn on Double bass, then it will send a full range signal to your mains and double that signal out to your subwoofer, effectively bypassing the crossover built into most receivers. In this case, engaging the crossover in your sub would be a good idea."

I cannot speak for the Onkyo, but for the Denon the way the manual reads for LFE+Main is that the LFE channel and the main F/R frequencies below the sub crossover are sent to the sub (not the full range signal) irrespective of the main setting.  I have not tried this with the mains set to large (mine are set at 60Hz), so I ca't say for sure, but now I will need to test it.

Hey Ken!

The Onkyo we currently use doesn't have a "subwoofer crossover" frequency the way my 702 at home does. At least, they don't term it as such. They provide an LPF of LFE adjustment option which ranges from 80hz to 120hz in 10hz increments. "Perhaps they have decided to just let LFE stand for subwoofer these days?" I thought. So I went into our room, disabled the mains, made sure the sub's crossover was bypassed and ran a test disc with a test tone that ran from 150hz down. Each time I ran the test, I adjusted the LPF of LFE setting from 120hz down. It made no difference at all. I'm really interested in what your experience is with your Denon. I think this will be really usefull information for folks!

I think I'm going to grab that Onkyo manual and see what they have to say about it and see if it contradicts or supports the Onkyo's performance.

Caleb,

Please report your findings on the LFE setting, as I have the 805.