Heads up!  A new HDMI spec was just approved, 1.4.  In addition to support of increased resolution, the biggie is ethernet over HDMI.  Of course, this opens up a realm of possible uses.  However, you need a cable rated for the new spec and those come in two flavors based on data rate capacity - hope you're still with me.

Read the Engadget post for more info.

Of course, it will still be a little while before we see 1.4 out in the wild.

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Mark
Aperion Audio Guru

Ha, i'm not even into HDMI yet.  I'm still cranking dolby digital...

I think it's a bit ridiculous now.  I don't want to go and buy a new AVR that has HDMI 1.4 now just to accommodate the new spec.  They just released or went mass production of 1.3 just about 1.5 yrs ago.  This is too soon.  Hopefully there won't be a lot of requirement for this for a while.

JonL:

I think it's a bit ridiculous now.  I don't want to go and buy a new AVR that has HDMI 1.4 now just to accommodate the new spec.  They just released or went mass production of 1.3 just about 1.5 yrs ago.  This is too soon.  Hopefully there won't be a lot of requirement for this for a while.

Unfortunately, JonL, home A/V receivers have entered into the same realm that computers have lived in for over 30 years.  There is always something better, faster, more powerful that requires new hardware to support it.  It's one of the reasons why I like Macs over PCs (and I am a computer guy).  The Macs don't obsolete themselves quite as fast as the PCs do - but you do pay a bit of a premium for a Mac.

I have an Onkyo 703 which is a great receiver and is less than 4 years old.  However, it doesn't have HDMI so I am missing out on a lot of the Blu-ray goodness.  It's just a matter of time before I replace it.

I am sure the process will repeat itself about 5 years after I purchase a new receiver.

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Mark
Aperion Audio Guru

That's technology for you. It's a love hate relationship. Like I paid over 2300 for my television two and half years ago, and now you can get a similar one for around $999. Bought my 875, and now there is  PLIIz and hdmi 1.4. It's hard to decide when to upgrade. You just gotta realize nothing is future proof anymore.

blkhks,

I agree with everything except the "more powerful" part. AVR's are getting weaker, becuase they have to pack em with all the new features which costs $$$ and puts higher demands on their powersupplies.

Back in the 80's you could rely on subsequent revisions to pack in higher quality amps, capacitors and such...That was back when 100 WPC actually meant something, it meant you were getting a full high quality 100WPC..It was the cold war of AV electronics. 

Of course they didn't have to worry about things such as DD, DD+, HDMI, 7 discrete channel amplifiers, video processing, onscreen setups, fancy icons on the display, 2nd zones, etc...etc..  That was back in the day when good AVR's weighed in at 40 + pounds of honest to goodness powersupply and circuitry. 

If you want a true 100WPC of qualtiy stuff with todays current features, you are definately going to have to pay $$$ for it...I've found this out the hard way over the past couple of years.

 

BTW...Looking forward to the Redwings / Black Hawks Series Starting on Sunday.  Hopefully you saw game 7 of Anaheim vs Detroit last night?  You guys got your hands full (What a bunch of garbage penalty calls though).  Just curious, what's the buzz in Chicago about the series?  What are you guys talking about on local sports radio?  Confident, scared, optimistic???  Word around Detroit is it's going to be another tough series.

 Dan

Dan:

blkhks,

I agree with everything except the "more powerful" part. AVR's are getting weaker, becuase they have to pack em with all the new features which costs $$$ and puts higher demands on their powersupplies.

Back in the 80's you could rely on subsequent revisions to pack in higher quality amps, capacitors and such...That was back when 100 WPC actually meant something, it meant you were getting a full high quality 100WPC..It was the cold war of AV electronics. 

Of course they didn't have to worry about things such as DD, DD+, HDMI, 7 discrete channel amplifiers, video processing, onscreen setups, fancy icons on the display, 2nd zones, etc...etc..  That was back in the day when good AVR's weighed in at 40 + pounds of honest to goodness powersupply and circuitry. 

If you want a true 100WPC of qualtiy stuff with todays current features, you are definately going to have to pay $$$ for it...I've found this out the hard way over the past couple of years.

 

BTW...Looking forward to the Redwings / Black Hawks Series Starting on Sunday.  Hopefully you saw game 7 of Anaheim vs Detroit last night?  You guys got your hands full (What a bunch of garbage penalty calls though).  Just curious, what's the buzz in Chicago about the series?  What are you guys talking about on local sports radio?  Confident, scared, optimistic???  Word around Detroit is it's going to be another tough series.

 Dan

 

Dan, point taken and you are correct regarding "powerful" in regards to AVRs.  When I wrote that I was thinking along computer lines which is primarily my background.  I should have probably left the powerful bit off in regards to AVRs.

As for the Hawks series with the Wings, I am definitely looking forward to it.  Personally, I think the Hawks are a couple seasons away from contending for the Cup (and hopefully end the drought that started in '61!). I was very happy they made the playoffs and making it through round one.  I am definitely enjoying the run they are making now through round two.  They are a really young team and I was thinking that the inexperience was going to hurt them especially in the Vancouver series when they kept getting behind in the games.  But they kept fighting back.  That game six was nuts, especially the third period.

Since I work for Aperion and live in the Portland area, I don't really keep up with Chicago media.  I can read the print media online but don't really have a chance to listen to the sports radio.  However I know that there is a lot of excitement over the team in Chicago (I have relatives in the area) who think that this team, because they are so young, is going to be a serious contender for a number of years.  Hopefully they can keep the nucleus together for a while in this salary cap era.

And you gotta love an Original Six matchup for the Conference Finals.

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Mark
Aperion Audio Guru

I'm definately looking forward to the matchup.  I don't really watch a lot of hockey in the regular season so i don't get a chance to watch other teams, so i'm excited to see what Chicago is all about this year.  I know the fans of Chicago hockey haven't had  a lot to chear about over the past decade or so, trust me, i know what it's like being a Lions fan...I couln'd imagine how i'd feel if the Lions made it to the playoffs!

 The Red Wings are good though.  It's the guys you don't read about that provide the suprises.  I wouldn't say they are unbeatable though.  Just sit back and enjoy the series, it should be a fast paced entertaining one.

Regarding the HDMI thing.   I've tried out 2 different HDMI capable AVR's and ended up settling on a non-HDMI AVR in the Denon AVR-3805 AVR.  Although it doesn't have the electronics of a seperate amp, it definately has a premium power supply in regards to AVR's....Dobly Digital sounds better on it than Lossless audio does on the HDMI AVR's i've tried (RXv-661, Denon AVR-988).  so i spent $250 on the 3805, and I like it better than the more costly mid range AVR's of today.  If i really wanted to go HDMI and didn't want to be disappointed, i would definately be looking at a Denon 4800 series or Onkyo 900 series...But those arent cheap, so i will continue to stay with the Cost effective AVR's of yesteryear.  Of, course, i have entertained the thought of one day picking up an old Adcom GFA 500 series amp for $250 :) 

 Here's in interesting bit...I have had this  5.1 channel AVR for about 8-10 years now:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200174&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

She sounds real good pushing my 90db sensitivity rated JBL studio series in the basement.  Coming in at 25lbs she's about 8 lbs heavier than the new RX-V665's...It's rated at 20hz-20Khz 100WPC with only 5 Channels and a respectable 0.06%THD, lower than today's .009% ratings on midpriced AVR's.  My guess is it will probably smoke the RXV's of today...

mjwarburton:

That's technology for you. It's a love hate relationship. Like I paid over 2300 for my television two and half years ago, and now you can get a similar one for around $999. Bought my 875, and now there is  PLIIz and hdmi 1.4. It's hard to decide when to upgrade. You just gotta realize nothing is future proof anymore.

Your Aperions will still sound good for a long long time!

Cheers 

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Russ

Joined you!

I'd say judging from the info in the Engadget post, there doesn't seem to be anything of real or immediate value in the 1.4 announcement: Higher resolution and 3D are far beyond the horizion, and we already have ethernet connections on our equipment for internet, data, etc. Shoot--as far as the tech we have in the here and now, we don't even really need HDMI 1.3, but that's another issue entirely.

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Oliver Amnuayphol
Home Theater/Audio Guru
Aperion Audio

Do we really need higher resolution?

The difference between 720P and 1080P on a Standard 50" flat panel at a seating distance of 8 feet or so is negligible.  The difference between a blu ray and a standard DVD on a good set isn't that noticeable.  

We are moving beyond the limits of what the human eye and ear are capable of...In terms of audio, there isn't a big difference between DD and DD+ despite the fact that a DD track is like 460K or something like that and a lossles track is somewhere in the 2-3mb range.

Music and Movies hardly sound any better on today's high tech equipment vs the stuff of yesteryear. We are getting into very very small improvements folks, where the limiting factor is the human anatomy. 

Here's an interesting site:

http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/

Is 20khz that important to you?

 

Yeah I can't hear above 17k, and in spite of my best efforts to damage them, I've still got pretty good ears.

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Jason Hicks
Aperion Audio Guru

Jason Hicks:

Yeah I can't hear above 17k, and in spite of my best efforts to damage them, I've still got pretty good ears.

I can just barely hear 14k.  But I'm an old fart!

Hears! 

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Russ

Joined you!

Dan,

Most of the time I agree with what you say here. However, I do take issue with this statement:

"The difference between a blu ray and a standard DVD on a good set isn't that noticeable."

If you are not seeing a difference, something is terribly wrong!

Blu-Ray, even at 720P, is stunningly better than the best of standard DVDs. This is, of course, assuming you are using component or HDMI, and not composite.

Now if you are talking an older movie, your statement may hold water. Newer movies though, with good transfers, are incredibly better.

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Scottiemon

Scottiemon:

Dan,

Most of the time I agree with what you say here. However, I do take issue with this statement:

"The difference between a blu ray and a standard DVD on a good set isn't that noticeable."

If you are not seeing a difference, something is terribly wrong!

Blu-Ray, even at 720P, is stunningly better than the best of standard DVDs. This is, of course, assuming you are using component or HDMI, and not composite.

Now if you are talking an older movie, your statement may hold water. Newer movies though, with good transfers, are incredibly better.

 

+1

 

I was about to post the same reaction.  Well said.