Hi, I'm finally upgrading my 10 year old Yamaha cheap-o speaker set to a suite of Aperions 7.1, but before I can order I have to select the best option for the rear speakers both in type and location.

I'm looking at the 6T-DB Hybrid XD set to accompany my new RX-V1900 but wasn't sure if 5Bs or 5DBs might be better rear speakers for my layout/arrangement.

I've attached a diagram showing my basement (HT) layout.  Currently my old satellites are about 15 feet back from the sofa and I've been told that is too far away and I should move them closer.  The only "closer" option will put them almost directly behind the sofa on the support structures.

So my advice request is for the best rear speakers (5DBs or 5Bs) for this layout and combo'd in with the best location for the rears.

I had been tempted to keep the rears on the far back wall because the poker table is back there and I can flip the AVR to 7-ch stereo to put music right on top of us.  But if having those rears that far back during movie time is wasted then I'd rather move the rears up and later add a 2nd zone for turning on just when I need music that far back. 

Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated.  I look forward to ordering these soon.

 

Thanks!

Matt 

Hi Matt, welcome to the forum!

First off, let me ask a question. Would in-ceilings be an option?  If so, that would probably solve all placement issues - if you want to go 7.1, I'd put a pair just behind the sectional and the second set back by where you have the question mark placements (probably about two feet or so in from the wall).

If in-ceilings don't work, then back to our original programming on the 5DB/5B option.  In which case, I have a question or two for you.

First, the LS and RS positioning - can that be moved back (toward the back of the sectional) a bit?  If you can place them directly to the sides of your primary viewing position (which I am assuming to be the sectional where you have the word "sectional").  In that position, the 5DB would be awesome since they'll direct sound both ahead of and behind you creating a really immersive sound field and envelope you pretty nicely while watching movies.

For the rear surrounds, however, I would probably stick with standard bookshelves - the 5B's since if a 5DB is placed behind you, you lose that really good immersive effect as all the sound is coming from behind you.  In which case, a standard bookshelf will give you mostly the same effect for less money.

As for the distance to the rears, I think you should be ok at 15' with the 5B's.  It still is within the soundstage of them and you should still be getting good effects sound from them while watching movies.  And they'll certainly work very well for music when sitting at the poker table.

Hope this helps!

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Mark
Aperion Audio Guru

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply and the welcome.

I'd consider in-ceilings for the rears and 5DBs for side-surrounds, but hadn't thought about in-ceilings for the rears before now.  It's a drop ceiling except for a 2-ft wide span of drywall running across where the support beams come down so that could work.  I'd just have to check available spacing since that span also holds the ducting.  In comparison, how much sound "experience" would I lose going to the more constrained 6-IC's over the 5B's?

I wish I could pull the LS/RS positions back.  On the right side up against the support struc is the door to the utility closet.  That moves it out a few feet, but then parallel to that is the basement window.  Sigh.  So move it out another foot and you end up about 5 feet forward from the seating position.

If the in-ceilings won't fly then it sounds like 5Bs over the 5DBs for rear speakers (that'll save me a few $$'s so no argument from me).

Just to rule out positioning options, would putting the 5Bs on brackets hanging off the support structures be too close for rears?  Honestly, I don't feel like I can hear the current rear speakers 15' back there right now during movies but didn't know if they just blended that well or were just too far away. 

 

Thanks again,

Matt 

Matt,

You lose a little bit in going with in-ceilings over bookshelves - cabinet speakers will sound better.  But the difference, especially as surrounds, is not going to be a lot.  In my old house, I was using in-ceilings for my surrounds and they sounded great both in movie mode and when I listened to music in all-channel stereo on them.  I really doubt that the experience for you would be really noticeable - our in-ceilings sound that good to me.

Regarding the 5B's on the support structure, I think they'll be ok there - in fact, that positioning looks close enough you can probably even go with teh 4B's in that position.  You'd give up a little bit in music mode with the 4B over the 5B but in movie mode, the performance at that close distance will be similar.

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Mark
Aperion Audio Guru

+1 to what Mark said.  I'd also add another suggestion on the side surrounds.  I've seen guys use ceiling mounts on bipole/dipole surrounds on one side in order to get them to the proper distance.  I can find the thread I'm thinking of on AVS if you need me to.

 

If you got the right side-surround out from the wall there, so that it clears the door, etc, you could put it more in-line with the seating position, and then move the left one back, as well.

 

 

Thanks to you both for the feedback.  I'm getting more interested in the in-ceiling option for the 2 rear speakers because I'd hate to be clunking heads on the 4/5Bs hanging off the support columns (tall guy here w/ taller friends) and after closer inspection it looks like i have the space for getting them in there.

Regarding the 5DBs, how high should they be placed?  The window pushing them forward is the typical basement sidewise, shoebox styled window so if they can be about 6.5' high at midpoint then i could swing that.  Recommendation on height of those DBs?

 

Thanks again!

 

Update: Okay, I plunged when I saw the Open Box 6T's & 12D both in black.  I went w/ the 5DBs for sides and the 5Bs for rears, but am still teetering on whether I want the in-ceilings instead for the rears.  I'll test out the 5Bs in the far back and see how I can hear them or not.  I really liked the idea of the in-ceilings and was even crawling around (not literally, of course) above the basement ceiling measuring depth availability, but my concern is the static nature of cut holes in my ceiling.  I figured I better test with externally mountable speakers first and then see if I need to change to the others, but going in the reverse direction would be tricky.

 

Anyway, I'd still appreciate feedback on the optimal 5DB height to see how much flexibility I have there. Thanks.

6.5' up will work great.  Jason usually recommends 5-7' up so that fits in perfectly.

 

You can see here that you should be in good shape, even with the THX recommended speaker placement: http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/71.html

That'd be great then for placement.  I can definitely got those 5DBs at that height, but just a foot or so forward of being parallel with the seating row.

Thanks for the THX link, I'll check that out now.

I'm still trying to decide on those in-ceilings.  The idea of concealment is great, but then the positioning becomes semi-permanent and it's one less pair of speakers to show-off in the manly "excessive competition."  Oh the burden of HT...

 

Update - just checked out that link.  Great stuff there.  The side speaker placement info makes me think maybe I should consider moving the side speakers back to the column area.  I've attached a pic (camera phone quality) with 2 options for placement.  The support structure (top post pic) is L-shaped, so it opens back up and could host the speakers right there.

So my options for the DBs are either ~2 feet forward or ~1.5 feet back.  Directly to the side of the seating row won't be an option (dumb utility closet).  The THX guide you provided shows the 90-110 degrees range moving backward, so it seems like the "behind the row" option might be better.  Any thoughts?

Out of those two, the first option is the best one to me.

 

However, if I'm understanding your issue on the right side, see this post on AVS for a possible solution.  Note that he ceiling mounts his surrounds.  You could do similar and then place them in the proper place.  The last picture in his post  is what I'm talking about.  He has one on the wall, and one from the ceiling.

Wow, his setup is awesome.  Great link for ideas there.

Suspending the side speaker is an interesting idea.  There's a drop ceiling here, so it'd have to suspend off the section of drywall that runs through the middle as the projector did.  Hmm, that might work. Definitely another option to consider.  Thanks!

Now I've just got to count the minutes until the FedEx truck arrives...

You could just make it a 5.1 system and then hook the other 2 speakers up to zone B, place those on either side of your poker table and listen to stereo music when you have the guys over.  They aren't there to listen to quality audio are they? They're there to drink your beer, eat your food and win your money.  BTW, when and where is the game?

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Joe
If you can't have fun doing it, it's probably not worth doing.