All, I'm getting ready to set up a new 5.1 HT system and would appreciate your comments/recommendations.  Unfortunently, while the boss doesn't seem to have a problem with buying almost 2 grand worth of speakers (didn't tell her I also needed a new A/V Receiver...) she does have a problem with rearranging our family room and I'm not allowed in the living room so this is it.  Although I do listen to music, I'm mostly concerned with HT performance and the setup I'm looking at is this:

As you can see, I'm going to have an acoustic "issue" with the right side of the room which extends out a total of 35 feet through the kitchen.  Obviously, the best solution would be to rotate the arrangement to make the left wall the "front" with the kitchen in the far back.  That would almost be a perfect accoustic arrangement but that puts the TV in front of a large picture window.  I was all for bricking over the glass but SWMBO disagrees so alas, it will not be.

As there is no decent location for the surrounds to be placed adjacent to the prime seating area (wife vetoed stands) I'm planning on going with the 534-SS speakers on the back wall elevated about 2-3 feet above the sofa.  Also, to minimize "clutter" I'm planning on using the 533-PT's in front to eliminate the separate sub. 

My questions are these:  First, is there any chance at all I'll be able to develop a decent listening environment given the huge sound-sink on the right side?  In other words, is it worth investing this much given the architectural constraints?  Second, are the 534's the best choice for surrounds in this setup?  I'm making a lot of assumptions but would guess that the more diffuse nature of the 534's would be the best option on the back wall and I don't see a decent option for side mounting.  Third, are the 533-PT's a good choice for this size of room?  For a similar price I could go with the 533-T with an S-10 in the front left corner.  The 533-PT's certainly limit my options for ideally locating the subs but I don't know how much of a trade-off this will be.  BTW, the Aperion system wizard recommended the 533-PT's AND an S-12 which seems like a bit of overkill.  My last question is regarding the A/V receiver.  Onkyo is just releasing it's new line of AVR's which make a very big step forward in HDMI technology.  There are three potential candidates in this group, the TX-SR705, 805 and 875.  The 805 and 875 are rated at 130 and 140W/channel so I'm positive power would not be an issue with them; however, the 705 is only 100W/channel.  Given the ratings on the Aperion speakers, I'd think the 100W/channel would be sufficient, any thoughts?

 Thanks

Hi KJ,

 

I think your diagram may be the best solution since the wife does not want speakers on stands with the 534’s as surrounds.

 

I used the 534,s as part of a front main setup until I received my 632’s. Now the 534’s are surround and I like how they blend with the walls. They should also work well as rear surround.

 

For a room of that size you may want to consider the 533-T or the 633-T with a sub.

 

You may well be pleased with the 533-PT but that depends on your taste for Bass. You do have the option of placing the 533-PT side firing sub < TV >  or  > TV < which gives a little room for experimentation.

 

 

With Aperion you have 30 days where you can return what you don’t like at no cost to you.

 

 

Jack

Thanks for the response Jack.  You also answered a question I forgot to ask, do the PT's subs fire just to the left or does the second fire to the right?  All pictures I've seen show the sub on the left side and even the speaker manual doesn't address this, apparently from what you're saying there are different left and right speakers just as with the 534-SS.  Also, last night I went ahead and ordered the 533-PT's to try them out.  I'll be driving them in a simple 2.0 system with a 20 year-old two-channel stereo amp (anyone remember those?) but this will give me the opportunity to compare them with my old (but excellent) Polks before going for the entire system.  Aperion's return policy is great, without it I don't think I'd be willing to fork over the cash just to "see" if they'll work.

See the link below to a member in the Gallery with the 533’s.

 

http://www.aperionaudio.com/community/forums/thread/3660.aspx

 

Jack

I think you have made excellent choices given the constraints.  With respect to is it worth spending this much money given the acoustical issues, in my opinion, absolutely yes!   Even with the open area, the system you are describing will be 100% better than cutting big corners with lesser systems.  I believe the impact of the room will be relatively minor compared to the difference with a low quality system.  With respect to the receiver, Onkyo is really coming out with feature packed products that will help "future proof" your purchase.  My advice is two-fold: a) I would compare all of the features of the receivers under consideration to determine the best value for you rather than just output power  b) depending upon how quickly you want to move, you may consider waiting until other manufacturers announce their "next-gen" products to give you a broader comparison.

Ken

Hey KJ,

Take this room diagram and flip it. That's my room to a "T" only my open area and kitchen is on the left instead of the right.

That open area to the right is not the liability that you think it is. It would effect the power tower's bass performance on that side only because you lack the solid boundary to immediately refract bass response coming from the right side-firing woofer (the PTs are mirrored) It's actually a nice plus because there is no wall there to cause reflections. So long as the left speaker is at least a foot from the wall (more if you can, but don't mess up your symetry for it) then I think you'll be doing just fine.

 I love the PT, but I don't know for certain that they will  all the bass you are looking for in home theater without an additional sub. Instead, consider the 533-T with an s-10 or s-12 placed in the front left corner (or in that general area) I think you'll pleasantly surprised.

As for the surrounds, go with what you have planned. I tried every option of satellite and bookshelf speakers on both stands and mounts and the 534-SS mounted on the rear wall was certainly the best of all that I tried.

Caleb

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Caleb Denison
Home Theater Guru
Aperionaudio.com

Thanks for the inputs guys.  As this is my first HT and I'm really glad to hear that I'm not wasting my time/money.

I did some measuring and could easily switch to the 533-T with an S-10/12 in the left corner.  I've got the PT's already on order so will give them a tryout first but unless I'm overwhelmed by them I'll probably go with the separate sub.  Also, I posted another question regarding this in the guru forum.  After doing some research it seems that the PT's won't deliver the full LFE that you get with a separate sub since they'll be running off speaker vice sub outputs and sub would have to be "off".  Any thoughts on that? Is the difference really noticable?

Also, after doing a bunch of measuring and looking and measuring and looking I'm beginning to wonder about in-ceiling 632-IC's vice the 534-SS.  I've got about an 8' ceiling height above the sofa with a slight (20deg) up slope to the ceiling's peak so I could place them as shown below and aim the tweeter's out instead of in toward the seating positions.  Which configuration do you think would give the best HT surround, the wall-mounted 534's or ceiling 632's?  I've heard a lot of good about the 534's and I also think they'd look really good on the walls; however, the other voter who lives with me grimaces every time I mention them though (she keeps asking "how big???").  She's being a champ and going along with me right now on the wall mounts but if I can get equal or better performance from IC's maybe that's the better option.  Also, due to the lack of a speaker box, is there any issue with matching the main speaker's tone?  If going to the IC's would they be best positioned as I show them or more directly above the sofa and away from the wall?  Remember there's a 20 degree ceiling slope so they will cant toward the TV.

KJ,

 

Although I am not a big fan of In-Wall or In-Ceiling speakers for the home, the 632 IC does have an aimable tweeter, which would allow for some adjustment of the sound dispersion in a fixed speaker installation.

 

You may want to check out the links below regarding IW/IC speakers.

 

http://www.atlantictechnology.com/Upload/PDFs/tech_tips/AT-TT-No8-print.pdf

 

 

http://www.nitchmarketers.com/audiotech/articles/ceilingspeakers.html

 

 

http://www.inwallstore.com/page/i/PROD/faq/fexpensive

 

Jack

I am sure the ICs would do a fine job, but I have to believe the 534-SS will be clearly superior as the surrounds.  It is really tough to get the surround effect with ICs.

Great info guys.  I think I'll go ahead and stick with the 534's and probably switch from the PT's to 533-T with an S-10.  It'll be a couple of months until I get everything I need (waiting on the new Onkyos) but will let you all know how it works once it's together.

Thought I would add my expereince with a weird room.  I have a room like Caleb's, with the opening on the left.  Size is similar to kj's diagram with one additional problem.  I talked to Caleb before ordering and I have 533PT's, a 533VAC, and 632ICs (surrounds) playing from a Denon AVR2807 and DVD1920.  My problem was the rear wall only goes about half way across the "HT" area, so I couldn't hang two speakers on the wall.  Besides that, I wanted rear surrounds.  While the 534's probably would be better, the IC's sound just fine and have a much higher WAF in my set up.  As to bass, the two 533PT's can shake the room when suitable bass is present.  That's mostly in movies, but I like classical organ music and that does not lack for low freq bass at all.  Example would be theE. Power Bigg's recording of Bach works done in the Freiburg Cathedral.  It's an SACD disk.  The Cathedral actually has four separate organs, all playable from on central console.  When the bass lines play, the sound is pretty amazing.

Anyway, I am sure Caleb doesn't remember our convserations before I ordered or when I was setting up.  He was a great help.  kj, don't give up on the PT's.  They may be fine.  But if really big bass for movies is your goal, 533Ts with separate sub might be the right answer.  I listen to more music and my family watches movies.  I like the smooth blending of the bass in the 533PTs.  That can be a real problem with a separate sub.  At any  rate, to each his own.  And thanks to Aperion, you can try both the PTs and Ts and pick the one you like. 

Charlie

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Charlie

I have a very similar room as well, a large opening on the right side of the room.  I also have PT's which were oriented with the subwoofers facing away from the display.  I noticed I had bad room mode issues with them in this orientation, as soon as I swapped the towers (subs toward each other) the cabinet I have my television on acted as a boundary and really smoothed out the bass in the seating area.  Give the PT's a shot in both orientations and determine what sounds better in your room, but I would bet on facing in (as long as you have something between them as in your drawing).